Tech Questions/Advice

76916 "Modifying and Tuning the Fiat SOHC Engine" [Croft] (Tue Feb 12 1:24:47 2002) 76919 Please post this in the racers forum as well [ulix] (Tue Feb 12 2:54:27 2002) 76930 Re: Pics taken last weekend, coming at ya! [bharston] (Tue Feb 12 8:47:20 2002) 76934 Re: Pics taken last weekend, coming at ya! [Croft] (Tue Feb 12 12:31:42 2002) 76935 I too will be sending photos [Mark124SS] (Tue Feb 12 13:20:28 2002) 76979 Re: Mark & I too will be sending photos [Croft] (Wed Feb 13 0:59:39 2002) 76937 First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next? [stephens] (Tue Feb 12 13:35:26 2002) 76985 Re: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next? [Webb] (Wed Feb 13 6:57:29 2002) 76989 Re: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next? [stephens] (Wed Feb 13 7:53:57 2002) 76988 Re: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next? [Croft] (Wed Feb 13 7:40:08 2002) 76990 Re: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next? [stephens] (Wed Feb 13 8:10:06 2002) 76987 Re: "Modifying and Tuning the Fiat SOHC Engine" [Jonas] (Wed Feb 13 7:18:50 2002) 76993 Re: "Modifying and Tuning the Fiat SOHC Engine" [Croft] (Wed Feb 13 10:28:14 2002)

Message#: 76916
Subject: "Modifying and Tuning the Fiat SOHC Engine"
From: Guy Croft [Croft] (gcengines@aol.com )
Date: Tue Feb 12 1:24:47 2002
Replies: 76919, 76930, 76935, 76937, 76987
Thanks to all who have followed the topic, and esp Courtney, 
Brian, Mike, Jon, Rich and apologies to anyone I've not 
mentioned by name. 
Thanks for the interesting info on digital photos. The UK 
motorsport book publishing industry is, unfortunately, way 
behind the US in electronic publishing technology, hence the 
nervousness about digital - which doesn't come from me.

What I'm after are B&W or color photos from negative preferably, 
but I WILL look at digital. Obviously I'm hoping for maximum 
involvement from keen owners with minimum inconvenience to them. 
Please do tho' send on disc and not via internet.
this is an engine book, so I am seeking:

1. Full engine shots, standard or modified
2. Photos of engine standard or modifed/race parts, eg: head, 
block, rods, cranks, pistons, oil pump, sump, inlet and ex 
manifolds and carbs, clutch, exhaust systems.
4. Photos of cars with SOHC of any type, not just OE Fiat 
vehicles but specials too, esp race and rally cars.
5. Tuning/set-up data, workshop manuals or copies thereof.
6. In particular any photos or workshop data on X19 injection 
(factory spec)
7. Any turbo conversion shotos and data
6. Useful tuning info, anecdotes, esp about engine failures of 
any sort and how you cured the problems.

Accompanying text can be handwritten/typed or e mailed asa anm 
attachment. Please ensure the photos are numbered and info 
written on the back if brief or accompanied by a sheet of paper 
with an index and details of what the shots are about and who 
owns the items/car. If you want the photos returned they will 
be, but there will be a long delay, because the screening is 
done quite late in the repro process. However, with experience 
from my TC book, I can start quicker when I have photos around 
me so send them off as soon as you can.

I have sent the draft synopsis below to Motor Racing 
Publications, they seem interested. At the bottom of this page 
is my address for inclusions.


MODIFYING AND TUNING THE FIAT SOHC ENGINE

Chapter 1 - SOHC Cars and engines

Technical specifications on SOHC engines with cutaway pictures 
and photos, covering a number of models, 100,1300,1500.
Any available history, works cars etc Italian tuners of SOHC

Chapter 2 -  Tuning theory

How the engine develops power and how to get more.
Linits on standard engine

Chapter 3 - Strip and inspection

How to take the SOHC to pieces and how to clean and inspect.

Chapter 4 - Top End
(Cylinder head)
Features of  the standard head, combustion chamber, valves, 
valvetrain.
Tech data
Standard overhaul and rebuild 
Competition modifications, incl porting, blueprinting, big valves
Competition cam set-ups 
Flowbench work

Chapter 5 - Bottom end
(The crankcase)
Features of the standard block, crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, 
sump and oil pump
Tech data
Standard overhaul and rebuild
Machining techniques, lightening, balancing etc
Competition modifications and special tuning parts/techniques.

Chapter 6 - In and out. 
(Fuel and exhaust system)
Features of the standard layout, manifolds, exhausts and carbs. 
Injection
Tech data
Standard overhaul
Modifications to standard system
Competition modifications, inlet/exhaust manifolds, race carbs 
and injection

Chapter 7 Turbo version
Dedicated just to the Uno Turbo engine
Layout, tech data, outputs
Overhaul and conversions; turbo, intercooler, ECU

Chapter 7 -  Ancillaries
Ignition system, standard and modified systems incl inspection 
and overhaul
Competition clutches
Cooling system
Lubrication system

Chapter 8 - Rebuild / test and fault finding

Index
Format
150-180pp
50-100 photos b&w
Softback

If you have anything you think might help, please write to:
Guy Croft
PO Box 699
Wellingore
Lincoln
UK 
LN5 0XD
(e mail: email user is gcengines and domain is aol.com)


Message#: 76919
Subject: Please post this in the racers forum as well
From: Ulix Goettsch (Ulm, Germany) [ulix] (derUlix@gmx.de)
Date: Tue Feb 12 2:54:27 2002
In-Response-To: 76916

A number of the SOHC engine people only read that forum.
.                                                 ___
   Ulix             __/__,__     ___/__|__     __/   
...................(_o____o_)...<_O_____O_/...( O    O)..
                   '67 Sprite    '74 X1/9   205GTI Griffe

                          http://www.mirafiori.com/~ulix/   


Message#: 76930
Subject: Re: Pics taken last weekend, coming at ya!
From: Brian Harston [bharston] (bharston@texas.net)
Date: Tue Feb 12 8:47:20 2002
In-Response-To: 76916
Replies: 76934
Guy,
I pulled out a bunch of my parts and took photos this weekend.  
I will send them, with descriptions, this week to your address.  
I will include the Abarth cam so you can have a look at it.  If 
you like, I can send my Fiat manual for the car also, but the 
pictures in it are crap.  The diagrams and exploded views are 
great, though.  I took pics of:

Valeo Clutch (pressure plate, bearing, disc)
Cam housing
Standard 1500 intake
Standard 1500 exhaust manifold
Standard Exhaust valves
Bosch Ignition Control Module (stock)
Abarth Cam
Factory tools (head wrenches, Combustion chamber gauge, valve 
stem height gauge, valve shim tool)

When I get my 1500 head cleaned I will send pics of it as well.  
I will also send pics of DCNF's and my own car soon


Brian Harston
Houston, TX
79 Fiat X 1/9 (current car)
77 Fiat X 1/9 (in a junkyard somewhere by now)
78 Fiat 131S (first car ever, wish I still had it)


Message#: 76934
Subject: Re: Pics taken last weekend, coming at ya!
From: Guy Croft [Croft] (gcengines@aol.com )
Date: Tue Feb 12 12:31:42 2002
In-Response-To: 76930

Splendid Brian!

Well done indeed and thanks!

Guy


Message#: 76935
Subject: I too will be sending photos
From: Mark Scholz (Portland, Oregon) [Mark124SS] (mark@mirafiori.com)
Date: Tue Feb 12 13:20:28 2002
In-Response-To: 76916
Replies: 76979
I currently have a 1500 that is being setup for my 128 3P 
racer.  I'll be sure to take pics of the various components, 
including the exhaust manifolds.  As I just posted to the 
Seattle X1/9 site, there is a slight difference between X 1/9, 
128, and early Yugo exhaust manifolds, so I will document it 
with photos.  It might be helpful for someone trying to decide 
between various stock exhaust manifolds.

I'll also grab some of the assortment of heads that are sitting 
on the shelves as well.  (1100, 1300, 1500, and big valve 1300)

And if I can get some locals to loan out their cams, I should be 
able to put them side-by-side as well.  (Faza 35/75 and 40/80, 
Alquati 50/70, and maybe a PBS S2)

How about the installation of the PBS high pressure oil pump 
spring, or a comparison of the stock vs. PBS springs?

Besides, the pictures are easier while the engine is on the 
stand.  There isn't a whole lot of clearance when in the car!

Heck, I might even take a few photos of the original front and 
rear spoilers on the 128 3P Berlinetta Sport GXL. I have a 1978 
ad for the Berlinetta GXL showing a rear spoiler, but I have 
never seen any documentation or advertising that shows the front 
spoiler, even though it came on the car as original equipment.  
It might be my only chance at getting the car in the book. ;-)

This is gonna be fun!

***BUY MIRAFIORI.COM PRODUCTS TO SUPPORT THE FORUM***
http://www.mirafiori.com/store/

Mark Scholz
Portland, OR

'74 124 Spider (Diablo Rosso)
'78 128 3P Berlinetta Sport GXL (Yellow & black)
'77 Strada motorhome
'67 Mustang coupe
'89 Volvo 745T


Message#: 76979
Subject: Re: Mark & I too will be sending photos
From: Guy Croft [Croft] (gcengines@aol.com )
Date: Wed Feb 13 0:59:39 2002
In-Response-To: 76935

Thanks Mark

You've got some first-class ideas there and I look forward very 
much to seeing some photos and technical stuff re results on the 
things you have mentioned, eg effect of high pressure oil pump 
and so on.

Best regards

Guy


Message#: 76937
Subject: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next?
From: Rich Stephens (Visalia, CA) [stephens] (rich@3Jar.com)
Date: Tue Feb 12 13:35:26 2002
In-Response-To: 76916
Replies: 76985, 76988
Just joking Guy, though it would be great to see what you think 
about and can do to the quad cam dino motors. The basis of this 
engine was for racing after all, and it would be great if 
someone could research what those engines were and how we might 
apply some of the tricks to the road engines. Certainly not as 
much demand for info and parts for them as for the millions of 
dohc and sohc fiats out there since there are were probably only 
about 10,000 engines made for the various cars (2.0 and 2.4 fiat 
dinos, 206 and 246 dino, and stratos). But I know a few guys who 
like the idea of driving the cars for all they are worth. The 
coupes weigh 3100 lbs. and we can use all the help we can get!

Overall, the stock 188 hp (SAE) isn't bad from 2.4 litres. I've 
rebuilt with 10.4 forged pistons (JE) and bigger valves and 
assume that I am somewhere near 200hp (though with the worn 
stock cams still I'm not getting all I can out of the engine). 
The "works" cars had groovy stuff like dual spark plug heads and 
24v and so on. Not that any of this stuff would ever be 
available, but it's nice to dream, ha!

Unfortunately I don't have a spare QOHC motor sitting around to 
ship to England. Just for fun you could look at the photos of 
the rebuild on my website at 
http://www.3jar.com/rich/dino/dino_rebuild.shtml

Rich Stephens
Visalia, CA
'71 Dino 2400 coupe (daily driver, highway warrior)
'64 1500 cabriolet (getting awfully dusty) 


Message#: 76985
Subject: Re: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next?
From: Matt Webb [Webb] (MattWebb502@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed Feb 13 6:57:29 2002
In-Response-To: 76937
Replies: 76989
That's a pretty cool motor man!
I like that a lot.
Got any pics of the combustion chambers and/or intake/exhaust 
ports of the head?

check this out. Those exhaust runners look nuts...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=237983 

- Matt Webb

Residential Design tech - Ovation Audio/Video Specialists
Louisville, KY
'78 124 Spider (no longer the daily driver) Soon to die.
'75 124 Spider  ..soon to be converted to a '78... ;)
'91 VW Passat GL (ahh... reliability!)


Message#: 76989
Subject: Re: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next?
From: Rich Stephens (Visalia, CA) [stephens] (rich@3Jar.com)
Date: Wed Feb 13 7:53:57 2002
In-Response-To: 76985

Matt Webb wrote:
: That's a pretty cool motor man!
: I like that a lot.
: Got any pics of the combustion chambers and/or intake/exhaust
: ports of the head?

Well, you can kind of see the combustion chamber on the "my
coupe" page of the website down at the bottom left. (clicking on
the photos will give you larger versions). I guess I didn't take
any pictures specifically of the intake or exhaust ports though.
The heads will possibly come off in a few months because I'm
going to change cams and a few other things. I'll try to
photograph then. I can say that the valves are at a 45 degree
angle, which was coming into vogue at that time and that the
ports are really short, I mean there really isn't much distance
from the outside to the valve. The intake manifold is really cool
too: O-rings instead of gaskets seal it to the heads and the
distance is really short from the carb to the intake valve.

It sure was clean there for a while! Doesn't look like that 6
months and 4000 miles later though!


Rich Stephens
Visalia, CA
'71 Dino 2400 coupe #5262 (daily driver, highway warrior)
'64 1500 cabriolet (getting awfully dusty)
http://www.3jar.com/rich/dino/ 


Message#: 76988
Subject: Re: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next?
From: Guy Croft [Croft] (gcengines@aol.com )
Date: Wed Feb 13 7:40:08 2002
In-Response-To: 76937
Replies: 76990
Nice site Rich, very impressed with the smooth format and layout.
Nice engine rebuild too, very clean and tidy.
I'd like to write tuning books full-time; much easier than 
working for a living!

Guy


Message#: 76990
Subject: Re: First DOHC, then SOHC, is QOHC next?
From: Rich Stephens (Visalia, CA) [stephens] (rich@3Jar.com)
Date: Wed Feb 13 8:10:06 2002
In-Response-To: 76988

Guy Croft wrote:
: Nice site Rich, very impressed with the smooth format and layout

Thanks. I actually do graphic design and web design for a living.
But after doing really complex stuff for clients all day, I
usually don't feel much like doing anything fancy on my own sites
so I keep it simple.

: Nice engine rebuild too, very clean and tidy.

We tried our best. The project was somewhere between a shop
rebuild and a home rebuild in the sense that we tore it down and
cleaned it up in a home garage, sent it to the machine shop, then
reassembled in another home garage. But my buddy Jeffrey is a
real mechanic (unlike myself) and is now working professionally
out of his home garage (www.rocketmotors.net) so it was pretty
well set up. He had just moved in though so the garage walls
weren't finished yet or anything.



Rich Stephens
Visalia, CA
'71 Dino 2400 coupe #5262 (daily driver, highway warrior)
'64 1500 cabriolet (getting awfully dusty)
http://www.3jar.com/rich/dino/ 


Message#: 76987
Subject: Re: "Modifying and Tuning the Fiat SOHC Engine"
From: Jonas (Lulea Sweden) [Jonas] (jd@tjohoo.se)
Date: Wed Feb 13 7:18:50 2002
In-Response-To: 76916
Replies: 76993
Hi Guy, and all others. Don't know if this is helpful but the
most 
complete website with SOCH tuningparts I've seen is
(http://jupiterfiatpower.tripod.com).
Maybe thay could spare some pictures.

Cheers.


Message#: 76993
Subject: Re: "Modifying and Tuning the Fiat SOHC Engine"
From: Guy Croft [Croft] (gcengines@aol.com )
Date: Wed Feb 13 10:28:14 2002
In-Response-To: 76987

Well done Jonas!

I'm massively busy...How about you drop them a line for me and 
tell them the Mira members are collaborating with me on a book 
on SOHC and ask if they would like to contribute photos and 
power results etc?

Give it a try - after all - they can only say yes or no!

Good luck

Guy

BTW this goes for other good firms members may know about too...


dauber