Well I experienced another problem with the magnetic pickup 
today. As some of you may recall, the previous pickup died on me 
the other day all of a sudden for no apparant reason (physical 
appearance was OK). 

I replaced it and the car started right up. I decided to double 
up the slack with a nylon tie. However yesterday I thought that 
perhaps the everytime the vacuum advance engage, it would tug on 
the wires over time and cause it to fail so I cut it off.

Well today within 5 miles of doing so, the car stalled on me. I 
popped the distributor cap and the wires were shreaded so to 
speak.

I made a quick repair with some butt connectors and drove the 
car on home to replace the pickup for the 5th time since I have 
owned the car.

The pickup I installed was identical in appearance and was 
apparantly made by the same company but this time I noticed two  
differences in lengths.

On pickup #1, The black and blue wires inside the distrubutor 
are about 3.5" long but on pickup #2, the wires were about 2.5" 
long. 

And the white cable that shields these wires on pickup #2 was 
about 6" longer than pickup #1. 

This leads me to believe who ever is making these pickups has a 
bad quality control problem. These are the same pickups that 
everyone sells for roughly $25.

Supposably you can get an original Magneti Marreli unit for $50. 
Do you think these are any better and have the correct length of 
wires?

In an attempt to add life to my present pickup, I have 
disconnected the vacuum advance. This should minimize movemount 
inside the distrubutor. I beleive the advance weights should not 
affect the movement like the vacuum advance mechanism.

I beleive who ever designed this system was on drugs at the 
time. There has got to be a better way of designing this pickup 
system.

Also let me make a statement if I may. 

Contrary to popular belief the vacuum advance module is not a 
power device but rather an economy device. It only functions 
under part throttle (cruise). The more advance you have under 
cruise, the better your fuel economy will be. Now how many MPG 
advancing the timing a bit adds, I don't know.

If you connect a vaccum guage to the car, you will notice that 
when going down the road it will register somewhere in the 
neighborhood of 16" HG depending upon how much load is on the 
engine. This is where the vacuum advance functions.

When you need power, you generally stomp the throttle. The guage 
now goes to atmospheric pressure and the vacuum advance no 
longer funtions, so there is no advance.

Anyone care to argue with my statement? C'Mon, I haven't had 
anyone disagree with me since the transmission comment.





James Seabolt  
Tennessee, United States
ICQ #: 7344463
http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/
                          
1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider, 
1981 FIAT X 1/9 
1994 JEEP Wrangler 
1968 Ford Fairlane 500

James-

You are absolutely correct regarding the vac advance.  If you 
drive really hard, it's not used too much.  I don't, and many 
people who replace it find their mileage goes up 2-4MPG when 
it's working.

On the pickups, I agree that the replacement wire length is 
incorrect.  My '81 (on it's second new pickup) has the extra 
wire tucked down into the gap between where the wire goes into 
the distributor and where the pickup mounts.  Try that.

MikeR
'77 Fiat 124 Spider
'76 Fiat 128 4 door
Beaverton, Oregon

'81 Fiat Spider 2000 Anniversary #236
Interlochen, Michigan (summers)

Mike Richmond wrote:
: James-
: You are absolutely correct regarding the vac advance.  If you 
: drive really hard, it's not used too much.  I don't, and many 
: people who replace it find their mileage goes up 2-4MPG when 
: it's working.
: On the pickups, I agree that the replacement wire length is 
: incorrect.  My '81 (on it's second new pickup) has the extra 
: wire tucked down into the gap between where the wire goes into 
: the distributor and where the pickup mounts.  Try that.

The wires on my present pickup are just the right length where 
they don't come in contact with the rotor. They sort of fit the 
curvature of the distributor cap. With just the right amount of 
slack (about 1/4"). Which might be OK even when running the 
vacuum advance connected.

However because they are shorter, I was afraid the constant 
tugging caused by the vacuum advance would either:

A: pull the wires into contact with the rotor
B: pull the wires out of the module

It's one of those, you can't win for losing deals.

But I think with the vacuum advance hose disconnected, the 
pickup should last a bit longer this time.

I'm going to try to repair the previous pickup by soldering the 
wires together and wrapping them with heat shrink tubing and 
keep it as a spare in my trunk. That is if the wires are long 
enough.

Whenever the question arrises, "What emergency parts or tools 
should I pack for a trip". The magnretic pickup is always first 
on the list.

I wish that Fiat had Bosch to design this system rather than 
Marelli. You never here of magentic pickup problems on X 1/9s. 
There are no wires related to the pickup inside the distributor 
of an X 1/9.

 


James Seabolt  
Tennessee, United States
ICQ #: 7344463
http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/
                          
1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider, 
1981 FIAT X 1/9 
1994 JEEP Wrangler 
1968 Ford Fairlane 500

Hi guys and Mike and James,duh thats what ive been saying all 
along about the advance,Mike,about the wires tucked in the 
distributor,if your advance is working this will chaff the wires 
causing a walkabout.i have used all kinda different wire length 
and manufacturers,i have never seen one fail prematurely and the 
only time i shredded the wires on one when i had the cam box off 
and left the distributor installled,and i,m really glad you took 
the tye off the wire as 2 years a the first time i had a fiat 
drive in that  couldnt be driven out was due to this idea(well 
intentioned but cut through the insulation on a brand new p/u)
She had already spend 2k trying to diagnose this problem.Again 
may i extend my apology,James on not disagreeing with 
you.thanks,dan. 
Canadian fiat parts and service.located in Ottawa 
Ca.fiat@magma.ca

dan wrote:
: Hi guys and Mike and James,duh thats what ive been saying all 
: along about the advance,Mike,about the wires tucked in the 
: distributor,if your advance is working this will chaff the 
wires 
: causing a walkabout.i have used all kinda different wire 
length 
: and manufacturers,i have never seen one fail prematurely and 
the 
: only time i shredded the wires on one when i had the cam box 
off 
: and left the distributor installled,and i,m really glad you 
took 
: the tye off the wire as 2 years a the first time i had a fiat 
: drive in that  couldnt be driven out was due to this idea(well 
: intentioned but cut through the insulation on a brand new p/u)
: She had already spend 2k trying to diagnose this problem.Again 
: may i extend my apology,James on not disagreeing with 
: you.thanks,dan. 
: Canadian fiat parts and service.located in Ottawa 
: Ca.fiat@magma.ca


So what are you apologizing for?


James Seabolt  
Tennessee, United States
ICQ #: 7344463
http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/
                          
1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider, 
1981 FIAT X 1/9 
1994 JEEP Wrangler 
1968 Ford Fairlane 500

    All of this talk about the pickup wire has reminded me about 
the fact that the ignition coil and circuitry is GM.  Does 
anyone know if the pickup is also a GM part?  I question that as 
I am trying to swap to GM fuel injection.  The first thing I am 
doing is swapping the circuitry behind the coil to a GM HEI.  
Hopefully the pickup will still act as normal and allow 
everything to work.


                    -Scott Flanagan


: dan wrote:
: : Hi guys and Mike and James,duh thats what ive been saying 
all 
: : along about the advance,Mike,about the wires tucked in the 
: : distributor,if your advance is working this will chaff the 
: wires 
: : causing a walkabout.i have used all kinda different wire 
: length 
: : and manufacturers,i have never seen one fail prematurely and 
: the 
: : only time i shredded the wires on one when i had the cam box 
: off 
: : and left the distributor installled,and i,m really glad you 
: took 
: : the tye off the wire as 2 years a the first time i had a 
fiat 
: : drive in that  couldnt be driven out was due to this idea
(well 
: : intentioned but cut through the insulation on a brand new 
p/u)
: : She had already spend 2k trying to diagnose this 
problem.Again 
: : may i extend my apology,James on not disagreeing with 
: : you.thanks,dan. 
: : Canadian fiat parts and service.located in Ottawa 
: : Ca.fiat@magma.ca
: So what are you apologizing for?
: James Seabolt  
: Tennessee, United States
: ICQ #: 7344463
: http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/
:                           
: 1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider, 
: 1981 FIAT X 1/9 
: 1994 JEEP Wrangler 
: 1968 Ford Fairlane 500

Scott Flanagan wrote:
:     All of this talk about the pickup wire has reminded me 
about 
: the fact that the ignition coil and circuitry is GM.  Does 
: anyone know if the pickup is also a GM part?  I question that 
as 
: I am trying to swap to GM fuel injection.  The first thing I am 
: doing is swapping the circuitry behind the coil to a GM HEI.  
: Hopefully the pickup will still act as normal and allow 
: everything to work.
:                     -Scott Flanagan


Correct me if i'm wrong (and i know you will), but I remember the 
'hot rod' types griping about how the HEI was worthless above 
4500 rpm's.... True?

*** BUY Mirafiori.com Calendars!***

Al
Houston, Tx
Vp nickname= 124Al
Member of FLU
'78 Spider (Bella)
'91 (oops) Dodge Dy-Nasty (wife's car)
http://www.geocities.com/broadway/3450

The guy who invented the first wheel was an idiot. 
The guy who invented the other three was a genius.

< < Correct me if i'm wrong (and i know you will), but I 
remember the 
'hot rod' types griping about how the HEI was worthless above 
4500 rpm's.... True? > >

- in stock form that is correct, however MSD and others offer HP 
components good to 10k+, actually you can use a corvette module 
in a FIAT and it works quite well $75. at last check. before 
converting to GM HEI you might want to look into Lancia beta HEI 
(its a direct bolt on)

-Todd

[]=< >=[]
[]=====[]

Scott Flanagan wrote:
: I am trying to swap to GM fuel injection.  The first thing I 
am 
: doing is swapping the circuitry behind the coil to a GM HEI.  

If you are talking about the control module, behind the coil, 
why swap it out?  AFAIK it is already GM; many of the modules 
say GM on them.

Erwin

'74 Fiat 124 Spider (yellow)
'72 Matra Bagheera  (yellow)
'89 Saab 9000 turbo (not yellow)
http://home.att.net/~e.timmers/

dan wrote:
: Hi guys and Mike and James,duh thats what ive been saying all 
: along about the advance,Mike,about the wires tucked in the 
: distributor,if your advance is working this will chaff the 
wires 
: causing a walkabout.

Yeah, Mike, that gap is formed by the edge of the plate that is 
moved by the vacuum module.  Its movement will chafe through the 
wires.

i have used all kinda different wire length 
: and manufacturers,i have never seen one fail prematurely 

So what do you do with the wires that are too long?

: the tye off the wire as 2 years a the first time i had a fiat 
: drive in that  couldnt be driven out was due to this idea(well 
: intentioned but cut through the insulation on a brand new p/u)

If you use a plastic tie that isn't too tight, it should work 
though.

Erwin

'74 Fiat 124 Spider (yellow)
'72 Matra Bagheera  (yellow)
'89 Saab 9000 turbo (not yellow)
http://home.att.net/~e.timmers/

James Seabolt wrote:
: The pickup I installed was identical in appearance and was 
: apparantly made by the same company but this time I noticed 
two  
: differences in lengths.
: On pickup #1, The black and blue wires inside the distrubutor 
: are about 3.5" long but on pickup #2, the wires were about 
2.5" 
: long. 
: And the white cable that shields these wires on pickup #2 was 
: about 6" longer than pickup #1. 

It sounds like #2 is the correct wire, or are the inside wires 
too short?  What is the manufacturer?

: In an attempt to add life to my present pickup, I have 
: disconnected the vacuum advance. This should minimize 
: movemount 

I did the same and got a nifty idea for an anchor from Pete 
Angel.  If you don't hold down the vacuum advance plate, it will 
still move, just not controlled.  In trying to investigate this 
I posted about the clear distributor caps, but let's not go 
there again.

: inside the distrubutor. I beleive the advance weights should 
not 
: affect the movement like the vacuum advance mechanism.

Right, the weights only move the top plate.

Erwin

'74 Fiat 124 Spider (yellow)
'72 Matra Bagheera  (yellow)
'89 Saab 9000 turbo (not yellow)
http://home.att.net/~e.timmers/

Scott Flanagan wrote:
:     All of this talk about the pickup wire has reminded me 
about 
: the fact that the ignition coil and circuitry is GM.  Does 
: anyone know if the pickup is also a GM part? 

The original control module from my 80 Spider had GM engraved on 
it with Magnetti Marelli stamped on it. So yes it is actually a 
GM part.

Since installing the Jacobbs Boostmaster, my control module is 
no longer in use. The Boostmaster acts as the control module. I 
just connected the wires from the pickup to the unit. You can 
also use points to trigger the boostmaster.


: I question that as 
: I am trying to swap to GM fuel injection.  The first thing I 
am 
: doing is swapping the circuitry behind the coil to a GM HEI.  
: Hopefully the pickup will still act as normal and allow 
: everything to work.

Just make a bracket for it. It's just an ignition coil.

From my personal experience, you don't really need allot of 
spark. I'm running a turbo and still use the factory ignition 
coil and it does just fine.


James Seabolt  
Tennessee, United States
ICQ #: 7344463
http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/
                          
1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider, 
1981 FIAT X 1/9 
1994 JEEP Wrangler 
1968 Ford Fairlane 500

erwin timmers wrote:
: : And the white cable that shields these wires on pickup #2 
was 
: : about 6" longer than pickup #1. 
: It sounds like #2 is the correct wire, or are the inside wires 
: too short?  What is the manufacturer?

Who knows.

: I did the same and got a nifty idea for an anchor from Pete 
: Angel.  If you don't hold down the vacuum advance plate, it 
will 
: still move, just not controlled.  


Wouldn't it be just as easy to disconnect the vacuum hose? Or am 
I missing something here.


James Seabolt  
Tennessee, United States
ICQ #: 7344463
http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/
                          
1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider, 
1981 FIAT X 1/9 
1994 JEEP Wrangler 
1968 Ford Fairlane 500

James Seabolt wrote:
: : It sounds like #2 is the correct wire, or are the inside 
wires 
: : too short?  What is the manufacturer?
: Who knows.

Didn't it say on the box?

: Wouldn't it be just as easy to disconnect the vacuum hose? Or 
am 
: I missing something here.

With just the vacuum disconnected, I was getting some erratic 
timing results at higher rpm and contributed it to movement of 
the vacuum advance plate (the pick-up is bolted to this).  I 
wanted the clear distributor cap to actually see it happen, but 
so far it's only an educated guess.  Anchoring the plate makes 
sure it doesn't move and lets me remove the whole vacuum 
module.  

Erwin

'74 Fiat 124 Spider (yellow)
'72 Matra Bagheera  (yellow)
'89 Saab 9000 turbo (not yellow)
http://home.att.net/~e.timmers/

James Seabolt wrote:
:  The pickup I installed was identical in appearance and 
: was apparantly made by the same company but this time I noticed 
: two differences in lengths.
: On pickup #1, The black and blue wires inside the distrubutor 
: are about 3.5" long but on pickup #2, the wires were about 2.5" 
: long. 
: And the white cable that shields these wires on pickup #2 was 
: about 6" longer than pickup #1. 
: This leads me to believe who ever is making these pickups has a 
: bad quality control problem. 


The Marelli Plex unit was used on/offered for a few different 
Fiats. I have had a Plex on my Fiat 850 for several years now. I 
once had to replace the pickup/wire piece (here's my story)... 

 I had removed the distributor from the car while doing cyl. head 
work. While I was in the house, my stupid dog came into the 
garage & thought the white wire looked like a good snack 
(Mmmmm... spaghetti?), & chewed it enough to render it as 
unuseable/unrepairable. I went to the local junkyard & grabbed a 
pickup/wire unit out of another Fiat (either a 124 or 131, can't 
remember). While installing the "new" wire, I noticed it was 
longer than my first one (inside 2 wires & white wire lengths).

What I'm getting at is... perhaps there were different lengths 
made by Marelli for different distributors (850 Plex has no 
vacuum advance) &/or different cars? Anyone?


: I beleive who ever designed this system was on drugs at the 
: time.

Or probably had too much "Vino Rosso". :o)


Jeff Stich
Yorba Linda, Ca.
http://home.earthlink.net/~fiat850/

1969 Fiat 850 Spider (daily driver/beater)
1969 Fiat 850 Coupe  (Euro. specs & RHD)
1969 Fiat 850 Sedan  (my very first car!)
Rear Engine Fiat Club member

erwin timmers wrote:
: James Seabolt wrote:
: : : It sounds like #2 is the correct wire, or are the inside 
: wires 
: : : too short?  What is the manufacturer?
: : Who knows.
: Didn't it say on the box?


No mention of the manufacture anywhere on the package.


: : Wouldn't it be just as easy to disconnect the vacuum hose? 
Or 
: am 
: : I missing something here.
: With just the vacuum disconnected, I was getting some erratic 
: timing results at higher rpm and contributed it to movement of 
: the vacuum advance plate (the pick-up is bolted to this).  I 
: wanted the clear distributor cap to actually see it happen, 
but 
: so far it's only an educated guess.  Anchoring the plate makes 
: sure it doesn't move and lets me remove the whole vacuum 
: module.  

Well now that you mention it, with the vacuum advance connected, 
my car seems to run a bit smoother but like I said doesn't have 
anymore power. I've already got the static timing advanced 7 
degrees so it looks like this would make up for it. 

Does this have anything to do with what your talking about?

Also explain more on anchoring the plate that the pickup sits on.


James Seabolt  
Tennessee, United States
ICQ #: 7344463
http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/
                          
1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider, 
1981 FIAT X 1/9 
1994 JEEP Wrangler 
1968 Ford Fairlane 500

James Seabolt wrote:
: Also explain more on anchoring the plate that the pickup sits 
on.

I believe Pete Angel e-mailed you the pictures of his anchor.  I 
took a broken module and modified it, so it would hold a screw 
that threads into the plastic clasp, thus holding the plate in 
place.

Erwin

'74 Fiat 124 Spider (yellow)
'72 Matra Bagheera  (yellow)
'89 Saab 9000 turbo (not yellow)
http://home.att.net/~e.timmers/

James Seabolt wrote:

: I wish that Fiat had Bosch to design this system rather than 
: Marelli. You never here of magentic pickup problems on X 1/9s. 
: There are no wires related to the pickup inside the distributor 
: of an X 1/9.

Jim, Do you know that the Bosch control mog (ignitor) for a FI X 
1/9 lists for around $450 and actually sells in the $300 range. 
You can buy quite a few pickups and control mog for that for 
your 124!

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