I was just wondering if anyone restores the innards of racing helmets.  My son 
has put together a very nice looking orange '75 124 Spider and I thought it 
would be a good Xmas present to get him a helmet for Ore'07 or local AutoX.

Last night on Ebay I found a vintage Bell Star orange helmet from '75, same 
year as his car. The helmet was said to be in great condition except the 
insides were beginninig to deteriorate.  Plus I don't know if the older helmet 
would meet the Snell or DOT standards.

Anyone have a clue?

Thanks, 

Mudge

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v65/mikemudge/75Fiat%20124%20Spider

'69 124 Sport Coupe (Shared duty, DD)
'71 124 Spider (rusty project)
'72 124 Spider ('77 conversion)
'75 124 Spider (OC..orange car)
'79 124 Spider (daily driver)

Mike,

I doubt we could pass a helmet that old... The rules for the track follow SCCA
which specifically state must meet M1995 or SA1995 and newer.

But its a great idea!

Andy (Medford, Oregon)
1974 X 1/9 (new Race Car)
1974 X 1/9 (Smokey Joe)
1976 Spider (long term project)
1979 Spider (in primer, IDFs and fun no doubt)
1978 Dodge Adventurer 150 (Tow Rig)
1988 Yugo GVX Daily Driver
1997 Dodge Caravan (Family Truckster)
http://www.sofia1.com

 Plus I don't know if the older helmet 
: would meet the Snell or DOT standards.
: Anyone have a clue?
: Thanks, 
: Mudge

Older helmets would not meet Dots standards today. 
When it comes to protective equipment, don't take any chances. Your sons life 
is too valuable to risk on sub-standard equipment.

Also, any helmet should be inspected carefully for cracks or deterioration 
which would compromise it's integrity. IIRC, once a helmet is dropped it 
should NOT be reused, so tell tale scuffs, scrapes, etc. should be a warning. 

Why not try a custom helmet designer instead...

http://www.dzign-uk.com/index.php

they have several which are for display only, but they do have some which meet
race standards.

...I'd get a new helmet in white and have it sprayed when we have the car 
resprayed. That way the match would be spot on and he could decorate it with 
whatever he likes after that


Brian Corsiglia wrote:
: they have several which are for display only, but they do have some which 
meet
: race standards.
'69 124 Sport Coupe (Shared duty, DD)
'71 124 Spider (rusty project)
'72 124 Spider ('77 conversion)
'75 124 Spider (OC..orange car)
'79 124 Spider (daily driver)

Mike Mudge wrote:
: ...I'd get a new helmet in white and have it sprayed when we have the car 
: resprayed. That way the match would be spot on and he could decorate it with 
: whatever he likes after that

make sure it conforms to the  snell "SA" (special application) 1995 or better 
specs. the cheapy walmart brands won't be accepted. as a backup, there are 
usually a few loaner helmets available at the track.

Pete

Pete,

Don't you think an SA rated helmet is a bit much for autocrossing? If he's road
racing I would agree, but for once a year at the Oregon event an M rated should
be fine.

-Dean

Dean Rees wrote:
: Pete,
: Don't you think an SA rated helmet is a bit much for autocrossing? If he's 
: road racing I would agree, but for once a year at the Oregon event an M rated 
: should be fine.

The "M" is for motorcyles. Even if 'racing' just once a year, the correct 
helmet is the right one. A good family friend died in an autocross freak 
accident. No helmet would have prevented the casualty (stuck WOT in a Lotus 
Elan hit a low lying branch off course). Andy Jossy and Mike Richmond will have 
to comment here on what the required helmet is for the Oregon competition 
event. Common says, just throw a good bucket on the noggin' and keep the shiny 
side up. But, then again, we are at the mercy of the insurance provider and 
sanctioning body.

Pete

SCCA M rated not legal.
Something about a hammer and anvil test they do on the
Auto helmets. I find it hard to believe that the
motorcycle helmets don't have equal or higher rated test.
They should, but apparently they don't.

80 Spider CSP
81 Lancia Beta (Farm Use:))
80 X1/9 in pieces

Robert McNabb (Blue Ridge Mountains, Virginia) wrote:
: SCCA M rated not legal.
: Something about a hammer and anvil test they do on the
: Auto helmets. I find it hard to believe that the
: motorcycle helmets don't have equal or higher rated test.
: They should, but apparently they don't.

I believe it's not a question of higher vs. lower type test but different type.
I think motorcycle helmets are designed for a single impact where car racing
helmets are supposed to be better for multiple impacts (as your head pinballs
back and forth off various objects around the passenger compartment). Or maybe
that's just an urban legend.


............................................................
Rich Stephens, Pacifica, CA
Former Fiats: two 1500 cabs, a Dino, two 131 wagons, a brava
Surf van:'72 Fiat 238 Weinsberg 'Wohnmobile' CamperVan
Daily driver:  '69 124 Spider
One of every Fiat project: http://www.3jar.com/fiat
Bay Area Running of the Fiats club: http://barf.mirafiori.com
............................................................

Siskiyou Sport Car Club (host for the Oregon Track Day event), in not a member
of SCCA, but we do follow a lot of their rules.  We also take the liberty of
modifying them somewhat.

We do allow both SA and M rated helmets, We allow a 15 year use, last year
SA(M)1990 were acceptable, but this year they are not, must be SA(M)1995, in
2010 helmets will have to be SA(M)2000 or newer.

I think it was Deb that hit the important part to remember helmets are a piece
of safety gear, not an ornament.  If you want to be safe get a good SA helmet,
then only use that helmet at the track.  If you want a helmet to display with
the car. get a cheap one, do it up cool, and its all good.  

Bottom line don't scrimp on safety equipment, and don't abuse it.  Once a helmet
is dropped once, it's considered no longer serviceable.  Its not worth the risk.


Andy (Medford, Oregon)
1974 X 1/9 (new Race Car)
1974 X 1/9 (Smokey Joe)
1976 Spider (long term project)
1979 Spider (in primer, IDFs and fun no doubt)
1978 Dodge Adventurer 150 (Tow Rig)
1988 Yugo GVX Daily Driver
1997 Dodge Caravan (Family Truckster)
http://www.sofia1.com

Robert McNabb (Blue Ridge Mountains, Virginia) wrote:
: SCCA M rated not legal.

Actually the official SCCA helmet requirement for Solo II (autocross) is that 
it must be approved by Snell in the current or two more recent ratings, which 
are updated every five years.  Thus either Snell M- or SA-rated helmets are 
permitted under this standard, with a Snell-95 or newer approval through 
2009.  DOT approval is NOT the same as Snell rating, and is not considered.  
Club and Vintage racing mandate SA-rated helmets for competition events.  Not 
sure about Rally, but I would expect it to also be SA-rated, even if SCCA is 
not "officially" sanctioning Rally at this time.

As regional SCCA events get their insurance through the SCCA national policy, 
they should accept either M- or SA-rated helmets for autocross.  However an 
SCCA region may place additional requirements on participants, including 
mandating newer or only SA-rated helmets.  Generally M-rated helmets are 
accepted, as they are less expensive and permit participation at a lower 
equipment cost to the entrant.

For non-SCCA autocross competition, the age and rating of acceptable helmets 
is typically up to the insurance policy.  Often the SCCA standards are adopted 
by non-SCCA clubs, but some clubs permit one additional rating, allowing for 
the use of Snell-90 helmets through 2009.  Similar variations are seen in non-
SCCA club regulations on passengers and convertibles with(out) rollbars.

Rich is correct that M-rated helmets are designed for a single impact before 
disposal, while SA-rated are intended to sustain multiple impacts and still 
provide protection.  That's why M-rated helmets can be found new for $75+, 
while SA-rated helmets typically start at $200.  Regardless, any helmet needs 
to be replaced after any serious impact, even if there are no visible cracks.  
This is also why you should NEVER buy a used helmet!

The best advice given to me came from my father when I started riding a 
bicycle: "There are no band-aids for scrambled brains".  Though I started with 
an open faced M-rated helmet, I now own a full face SA-rated helmet for all 
events.  The M-rated helmet is my spare, given to passengers on the autocross 
course.  But if I am ever on the racetrack, such as for driver's training or 
club track days, I only use the SA-rated helmet.  Not only because of the 
higher rating, but because the full face protection will likely keep me from 
taking a bite out of the steering wheel.

1974 124 spider
1974 128 2-dr EP autocrosser
1977 Strada Motorhome
1967 Ford Mustang sedan (3rd generation owner)
1991 Alfa 164S (red, very red)
1999 Volvo Cross-country (hers)

Pulled from the Snell Institute Web-Site FAQ:

What are the differences between the SA, M and K standards?
    SA Standard was designed for auto racing while M Standard was for
motorcycling and other motorsports. There are three major differences between
them:

       1. SA standard requires flammability test while the M standard does not;
       2. SA standard allows narrower visual field than M standard (Some SA
helmets may not be street legal);
       3. SA standard has rollbar impact test while M standard does not.
       4. The K standards are very similar to the SA standards, however the K
standards omit the requirements for flame retardency. 
_______________________________________________
While I'm not saying that an SA helmet isn't a better choice. An M rated helmet
should be fine for the driving Pat will be doing. My helmet is a full face
M-2005 helmet.

I don't believe that any helmet is rated for multiple impacts. If you hit
something with either helmet it's time for a new one.

I'm sorry to hear you lost a friend in those circumstances Pete.

-Dean