Thought maybe this would be the place to ask. My  Ansa header 
on my scorpion 2 liter 10.7 CR dual 40 dcnf's keeps buring of 
the High temp coating that is guaranteed by Air Borne to be 
good to 1200 degree F with periodic 1400 degree temps.
Seem like my header must be runnen over the 1200 range, is this 
normal for a fiat engine :) any of you guys have an experience 
with this....My exhaust shows suity after a long run so I dont 
think I am runnen lean . ?????

Allen & Lynette Lofland # ?
1978 Black Spider, son's Toy
1978 Brown Spider, Lyn's Toy
1977 Black Scorpion, Dad's Toy
1982 White Zagato, Family Car
1981 Black Zagato, Parts Car... Need anthing ? :)

Even really good paint goes to hell after awhile.  The only 
thing that I know that lasts for awhile is jet coating, but even 
that dis-colors after a while.

If you were in the 1400 range, then you are running way to hot.  
1600 and you are melting items.  Usually not a good thing.

Eric Armstrong
74 X (DP)
74 X (Dmod) Uno Turbo
73 124 Coupe
2003 and 2004 OSI Champ.  

It's a cermic coating that is proffesionally applied and 
guaranteed to 1200 degrees, What I need to know is if any of 
you have any experience with coated manafolds and also the 
actual temps your runnen. I would think that  racer would know 
the exhasut temps for tunning ?????:)
actually 1200 f is not that far above expected temps but again 
I am looking for comparisons and experience in this field so I 
can decide if it's over heating or not for sure. I can go to 
the 2000 degree coating but really dont see the need :)?


Allen & Lynette Lofland # ?
1978 Black Spider, son's Toy
1978 Brown Spider, Lyn's Toy
1977 Black Scorpion, Dad's Toy
1982 White Zagato, Family Car
1981 Black Zagato, Parts Car... Need anthing ? :)

Allen & Lynette   Lofland  Wichita  KS USA wrote:
: Thought maybe this would be the place to ask. My  Ansa header 
: on my scorpion 2 liter 10.7 CR dual 40 dcnf's keeps buring of 
: the High temp coating that is guaranteed by Air Borne to be 
: good to 1200 degree F with periodic 1400 degree temps.
: Seem like my header must be runnen over the 1200 range, is 
this 
: normal for a fiat engine :) any of you guys have an experience 
: with this....

The header on my racecar has an airborne coating.  I have had no 
trouble with it.  This is the second header I have had coated by 
them and I know a number of other users with good results.

That said, exhaust temps on well tuned, normally aspirated, 
racecars will run in the 1200F range and can spike to 1400 under 
very severe conditions.  I went to the airborne coating after I 
cooked every high temp paint I could find off the header in just 
a few events.  A street car, even one driven hard, should not 
cook the ceramic coating off the header unless it is quite 
lean.  

My exhaust shows suity after a long run so I dont 
: think I am runnen lean . 

Unleaded fuel will leave soot in the exhaust no matter how lean 
it runs.  That's the nature of unleaded fuel.  You need to do a 
plug check or install an air/fuel ratio meter to verify the 
mixture.  I will bet you are quite lean.  If you install an AF 
meter you are looking for an ideal ratio in the high 12s or low 
13s.

Steve
1x4

Wouldn't the wrong ignition timing also cause a hot manifold?

Ulix                      http://www.mirafiori.com/~ulix/

Allen & Lynette Lofland # ?
1978 Black Spider, son's Toy
1978 Brown Spider, Lyn's Toy
1977 Black Scorpion, Dad's Toy
1982 White Zagato, Family Car
1981 Black Zagato, Parts Car... Need anthing ? :)

Ulix Goettsch (Stuttgart, Germany) wrote:
: Wouldn't the wrong ignition timing also cause a hot manifold?

Yes it will.  But you do have to be pretty far off to cause that 
much of a problem.  I have seen it so bad that the manifold 
glowed red.  

On that subject, I remember dyno'ing my racecar at a shop in 
Nashville.  We were there late into the evening and it was 
pretty dark in the shop.  After a number of runs the header was 
so hot it glowed red/orange all the way past the collector!   
The AF ratio was spot on so we were doing detail work on 
ignition timing.  That is stepping through the timing map 1 
degree increments trying to squeeze every last HP or two out of 
the motor.  No way the timing was making it hot it was just how 
hard the motor was working.  Interestingly, the motor works much 
harder on the dyno than it does on track.  The dyno loads the 
motor way more than just pulling the weight of the car.  

It didn't seem to hurt the header coating though. 

Steve
1x4

I once had my locked vacuum advance mechanism come loose on the 
track, and saw my header glowing red after coming in to the 
pits.  With this much retard it barely ran, though.   I think 
there would be a noticable performance problem before it got to 
the point of damaging a ceramic finish.  Certainly worth 
checking the ignition timing since it is so simple to do.

My diagnosis would be that Airborne screwed up on the header 
prep before coating it.  That's what they did with my header.  
It has cracked and peeled about 8-10 inches downstream of the 
ports, and did this within a few hours of mounting on the car.  
I had my header done out of their Oklahoma site.

Paul

___________________________________________
Paul Stoltze
'74 X1/9 Street Car
'77 X1/9 SCCA G-Production Race Car
Austin, Texas, USA

and I am getten a little tired of paying them for it :(
My timeing is set at 10 degrees BTDC and my mech. advance is 25 
degrees additional at 4000 rpm. 
My dual dcnf's are jetted the same as other 2 liter's . My 
plugs show tan to whitish after a good highway run. It might be 
a little on the lean side but not a lot. 
I have purchased a temperature point and shoot laser thingie :) 
that will give me temp readings up to 1400 degrees, will have 
that next week and will play around with that , But I would be 
interested in learneing if others have had a simlar problem 
with Air Borne Ceramic coatings going bad.  
When I find out what temp I am running NOW for sure, I can talk 
to Air Borne again :)
There are two difference coating places in Oklahoma city  
Air Borne and HPC..Which one did you use ? They are both very 
well respected in the industry >

Allen & Lynette Lofland # ?
1978 Black Spider, son's Toy
1978 Brown Spider, Lyn's Toy
1977 Black Scorpion, Dad's Toy
1982 White Zagato, Family Car
1981 Black Zagato, Parts Car... Need anthing ? :)

Yes, I used Air Borne in Oklahoma.  I have HPC's information, 
and was thinking of trying their HyPerCoat Extreme product for 
my race car.  It should provide better heat reduction in the 
engine compartment, but is quite a bit more expensive.

In your case, did the Air Borne ceramic coating crack and peel 
without discoloration?  That's what mine did.

Paul   
___________________________________________
Paul Stoltze
'74 X1/9 Street Car
'77 X1/9 SCCA G-Production Race Car
Austin, Texas, USA

No it did not crack and pel, it is slowly degrading rom shiny 
to dull to rought texture to velvet grey ...This si typical 
slight overheating according to them. BUT when I find out what 
my temps are ,I will be deciding how to react to Air Bornes 
warentee :)
Allen & Lynette Lofland # ?
1978 Black Spider, son's Toy
1978 Brown Spider, Lyn's Toy
1977 Black Scorpion, Dad's Toy
1982 White Zagato, Family Car
1981 Black Zagato, Parts Car... Need anthing ? :)

Paul Stoltze wrote:
my header.  
: It has cracked and peeled about 8-10 inches downstream of the 
: ports, and did this within a few hours of mounting on the 
car.  
: I had my header done out of their Oklahoma site.

Mine did the same thing.  Got it done @ the Conneticut location.

Jon Ranney
Royalton Vt
www.fiatpwr.com

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fiatpwr/my_photos

88 Yugo 1.5  Daily driver
88 Yugo Cabrio 1.5
87 Yugo GVL  Junk!
77 Fiat 131  Almost ready
76 Alfetta GTV  Sold @ Carlisle '04
70 OTAS  Resto project
72 Fiat 124
96 GMC Suburban
03 Honda Civic

Allen & Lynette   Lofland  Wichita  KS USA wrote:
: No it did not crack and pel, it is slowly degrading rom shiny 
: to dull to rought texture to velvet grey ...This si typical 
: slight overheating according to them. 

According to Airborn the only maintenance required is to 
occasionally wipe it down with solvent to clean it.  I have done 
this and it seems to help.  I had noticed that the finish has 
gotten somewhat dull but it hasn't seemed to have gotten any 
worse.

I can't imagine you are making any more exhaust temp than my 
racecar unless you are way lean or there is another issue.  I do 
have an infarred, non-contact pyrometer and it was spiking into 
the 1400 degree range, just past the mounting flange, on long 
dyno runs.  Typical operation is high 11s to low 12s.

Incidentally, I had mine done in Charlotte, NC.

Steve
1x4